Lu Ann Lewellen: You state that Sanderson never retracted what he had originally written about the Iceman's supposed legitimacy as a formerly living and breathing creature. That is true, although there are suspicious weasel phases in some of his writings, somewhat on the order of "If the thing is real and not a human fabrication, then....," which are suggestive of his, at the least, not discounting the possibility of the thing being a fake. You then assert that, in addition to Heuvelmans, Sanderson "believed that [he] had seen a once-living hominid." Most folks studying the Iceman saga, not being mind readers, might be a bit less sure of what Sanderson actually knew and believed. After his youth, he never made a single contribution to science, and even back in that youth, he concocted false accounts of his supposed encounters with fabulous nonexistent animals. He made a career of writing sensationalist bullshit--he had no respect for the truth, whatsover. Even Heuvelmans called him a pathological liar. He had multiple motivatiions to continue maintaining that the Iceman was for real. To admit that it wasn't would have made him look bad, because he would look as if he'd been completely fooled by a fake.

 

As you know, I maintain that Hoover apparently "requested" everyone to keep certain information secret. Maitaining that the Iceman was for real contributed to Sanderson's continuing career as a writer of the sensational, writing that a carny had been showing an artifact that he, "amazingly for a carny (yeah, right!)," was misrepresenting something to the public would not be all that sensational. And, as I have repeatedly pointed out, I read a letter from Sanderson to the Smithsonian personnel involved, in which Sanderson claimed that the Iceman was a fake. Heuvelmans may very well have believed, till his dying day, however, that the Iceman was not a fake.

Ron Pine: Heuvelmans said the timing of the call was "perfectly timed" and Sanderson thought it was "clearly a ploy". That may be in one of the many quotes I've posted. If not, here it is:

"This “spontaneous” revelation was perfectly timed to confirm Hansen’s latest declarations. Not that there was much cause for such a fuss; it merely confirmed what was already known, namely that a copy of the specimen had been fabricated earlier so that it could replace the original 'in case there were to be problems.' When Napier called Sanderson about it, the latter merely shrugged and declared that the wax museum’s call was clearly a ploy aiming at discouraging the Smithsonian’s interest in the matter. Sanderson also claimed that he had found another professional model-maker who had crafted a similar model, again for Hansen, but in April 1969. In any case, the specimen that he and his friend Bernard had carefully examined was certainly not made out of rubber because it was rotting away with a noxious smell. Furthermore, added Sanderson, even if that specimen had been a fake, which it couldn’t be for a variety of other reasons, it would necessarily have been constructed from parts taken from living beings."

Heuvelmans, Bernard. NEANDERTHAL: The Strange Saga of the Minnesota Iceman. Anomalist Books. Kindle Edition.

The press had taken an interest by then and the owner of the wax museum may have read something about it. I don't know of any reason to think the call wasn't genuine. Several people worked on Hansen's model; there may even have been more than one model.

Prior to the call: "On April 20, he [Hansen] went as far as inviting the press to his home. Wearing his usual Texan hat and hiding his eyes behind sunglasses, he formally presented to the journalists, including Gordon Yeager of the Rochester Post-Bulletin, the frozen creature currently in his trailer. He emphasized, however, that this was not the original being, but 'a man-made artifact.' He gave ambiguous answers to probing questions. He allowed the photographers to take as many pictures as they wanted."

Heuvelmans, Bernard. NEANDERTHAL: The Strange Saga of the Minnesota Iceman. Anomalist Books. Kindle Edition.

George Berklacy received the call in May. It would be interesting to see some of those pictures.

From Rossi & Saggese (translation by Google with some minor editing):

"In his book on the subject, published in 1974 under the title "L'Homme de Neanderthal est toujours vivant" (The Neadertal man has survived ), written in collaboration with the Russian historian Boris Porchnev, Heuvelmans has extensively discussed these apparent differences in this regard by showing different pictures. The thesis of the Belgian zoologist, is that in reality Hansen had simply limited further to dissolve the ice that covered the corpse and then refroze it, and that the person in the casket was then still the same. The photographs taken then appear sharper fact regarding the visibility of details, proof that the layer of ice must have necessarily narrowed. The most impressive special concern, however, the changes in the position of the mouth, dramatically more open than before and showing a greater number of teeth. According to Heuvelmans the mouth movements were made by Hansen after the dissolution of this particular ice and further strengthens the hypothesis about the authenticity of the find, had also found that the skin wrinkles, moles and small scars were still in place. Despite the bad publicity that Hansen was careful with such care to get to her show (signs of his last exhibition marked "Creature Siberian artificial, such as that under investigation by the FBI") Professor Murrill, Department of Anthropology at the University of Minnesota, decided to examine of the person presumed dead so controversial. As Sanderson and Heuvelmans before him, was so impressed by Hansen to offer a high sum in cash to acquire the find on behalf of his university. Hansen though, suddenly decided to do disappear forever the body, thereby preventing any further analysis, which did not help at all about its possible authenticity. Absolutely displaced, Sanderson and Heuvelmans, who wanted to run on it an x-ray examination and take samples of blood dissolved in ice perform the analysis, however, remained firmly convinced of the authenticity of the find, in their view a kind of Neanderthal current, highly specialized, dubbed Homo pongoides. It could come from the forests of Vietnam, where he was killed by a gunshot to the head, that blew the balls from their sockets. From there it was imported illegally in America, probably locked away in a bag to transport the corpses with this process, in the late 60s, was born a flourishing smuggling consignments of heroin , hidden in bags carried by American warplanes ... Hansen was therefore rejected any further analysis for fear of being victim of some lawsuit where he exposed the corpse was found to be authentic."

 

Ajciani noted "The known mannequin has sparse hair, while the photos look to be quite a bit more hairy."

?? Ajciani noted "The known mannequin has sparse hair, while the photos look to be quite a bit more hairy."??

THE THING IN THE MUSEUM IN TEXAS HAS *MORE* HAIR IF ANYTHING WHEN COMPARED TO THE TERRIBLE PHOTOS OF THE "ORIGINAL."

Terrible photo of the original.

Yes, EXACTLY. As an example for science it's pathetic. It's much more of a dramatic photo, meant to suggest mystery and wizardry.

 

The fact is, as scientists, these guys were incompetent, and based upon a myriad of flawed assumptions, bad ideas, contradictions, and erroneous measurements, they ran to the public to spew forth completely unfounded preliminary impressions not even having touched the damn thing. No doubt they found more value in this for attention, money, and fame tham they extracted any truths.

 

Steven Streufert: Writing it up and publishing in Genus is running to the public? I assume Sanderson was paid for his articles but how did Heuvelmans get much in the way of attention, money and fame from all this?

How? Well, we're still talking about him after all these long years, aren't we??

 

His books sell very well, and expensively, though most are out of print. The new English translation one sells well. Sanderson is evergreen with his own books of BS.

 

"Money, money, money, MONEY!!"

 

"LIVING CORPROLITE"

My dad wrote an article for Life and years later one for a much better magazine than Argosy. We didn't exactly live off the proceeds forever.
I think we know Sanderson wrote for Argosy. Sanderson wrote a lot of articles and books. It's what he did for a living. He probably wrote - or rewrote - Hansen's "I Shot...." article too. Heuvelmans published in a journal. Neither one ever retracted, did they? They believed they had seen the corpse of a once-living hominoid.

 

Steven Streufert: Dramatic photo? Looks more to me like the lighting wasn't very good and Sanderson (who I presume took it) just wanted to get a good shot of Heuvelmans viewing the thing.

Sanderson was science editor of Argosy magazine when they went to see Hansen, for whatever that's worth.

Yeah, dramatic. Like out of some old horror movie. Heuvelmans looks like Doctor Frankenstein, with a touch of Rasputin and Nosferatu.

 

Shall we say "science" editor?

 

Or..... *you* believed what they wanted you to believe!

Ron Pine: It would be good if you could remember that letter in its entirety.

Heuvelmans' letter again in case anyone missed it. Heuvelmans had good things to say about Sanderson too.

Darren Naish article of interest...

 

To my knowledge, I'm the only investigator who's thoroughly examined the (current) Minnesota Iceman in person and THAWED OUT - on two separate occasions within the past 7 years. My conclusions are published in my two recent books.

Ken Gerhard: I just bought one of your books but am not finding anything about the back of the model's head. Did you see it? Was it blown out? Intact?

No. The back of the model's head is not blown out - nor are either of the eyes blown out - nor does the model or its enclosure emit even the slightest hint of a bad smell. Most significantly, the model's mouth/dentition are dramatically different than the one that was described/sketched/photographed by Heuvelmans, Sanderson, or Cullen.

Ken Gerhard: Thank you. I believe Terry Cullen.

Who can really say that "the original" had a blown out back of the head? They couldn't really see it. Any blood, brain matter, or eyeballs and such could easily have been added on top of a dummy.

As far as I know Sanderson and Heuvelmans said nothing about the back of the head. Terry Cullen did.

Well, then, how did *he* see it??

He said Hansen turned the ice block over for him. Steven Streufert: I thought you read Heuvelmans' book. It's in there.

The point is, beyond that, they just assumed these things were real because they *looked* or *seemed* to be real, and of course they wanted it to be real very badly. They also had other motives. Looking and seeming are, we have to admit, the whole point of a gaff or hoax. Selling mystery as a certainty or possibility is the domain of the charlatan and con.

 

I am reading the book now, but I find it continuously ridiculous.

Steven Streufert: Heuvelmans was skeptical.

"This implied a drive of more than 3,000 km [1864 miles] to get a look at what was most likely, I thought, to be some kind of trickery, either some carnival fake or a well-known animal. (The Oriental origin of the black specimen and the presence of a sagittal crest led me to think that it could be a Celebes crested macaque, a large tailless monkey also called black ape or crested baboon.) I found Ivan’s confidence and enthusiasm to set out on such an expedition on the basis of rather suspect information rather excessive."

Heuvelmans, Bernard. NEANDERTHAL: The Strange Saga of the Minnesota Iceman. Anomalist Books. Kindle Edition.

Er.... BEFORE the fact, maybe so